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Started: 11/7/2018 12:22 PM
Picture Placeholder: TIM TRUMBLE
TIM TRUMBLE
1948 Drawings for Rotary and fixed wing / 463L pallets

My QASAS has been telling me that there are drawings for Rotary Wing (sling) and Fixed Wing (463L pallet) movements.​  He quotes the 19-48 drawings which are for storage of single DODICs and outload  - like on a truck or in a MILVAN but the drawings don't account for mixed DODICs, nor various sized boxes w/in the same sling or on the same pallet, especially with limited rescources at an austere location (There are no Walmarts, Home Depots (limited lumber), etc. nearby).  In our situation, as the slings of mixed DODICs w/ different sizes and various weighted packages, which affects the center of gravity of the pallet gets lifted in the sling (also, how the corners of the pallet match up w/ the holes between the ropes of the sling can add to the twisting of the pallets of the ammo when the rotary wing asset lifts the sling) the pallets have twisted and the tensioned metal bands break.  The contractor has told me the broken banding can also cut/fray the sling making the sling not usable for future use and must then be replaced.  (By the way, what is the tension breaking strength of the various sizes of metal banding?)  The rotary wing contractor wants the pallets secured w/ ratched straps b/c the straps stretch w/o breaking while under stress.  That contractor says they have had metal banding break in flight for various reasons resulting in loose ammo in the sling and the contractor can't just set down IOT reconfigure the load adn doesn't want to drop ammo out of their sling which can become donor material to the bad guys.  When the rotary wing contractor comes in to set down the sling they are quite often under fire.  Inadvertantly they deliver the ammo w/ a thud (IOT leave the area quickly since they are not able to defend themselves.) 

The 19-48 drawings are for full pallets of the same DODIC, which works great for storage at Depots and loading onto trucks or into MILVANs  but not necessarily for Operational loads of smaller quantities of mixed DODICs.  A vast majority of units do not order Depot sized quantities or pallets of each DODIC.  Does anyone have a common sense answer to this delema?  The QASAS is writing up the contractor for packaging pallets of ammo as per sling yard guidance which is not abiding to the 1948 drawings.  The ASP contractor assists the units and gets them their ammo asap despite the contractor working outside their Statement of Work, by configured the ammo for sling loads and moving the ammo to the sling yard.  Most of the contract workers are former SM that worked ammo when they were serving, as such they understand as we do the need to provide the trigger puller ready, reliable, lethal ammunition quickly. 

The contract workers are packaging the unit's ammo as per the guidance from the sling yard personnel IOT quickly push the ammo to the Warfighter.  But the QASAS is writing the contractor up and pushing the write ups up their Chain of Command which is threatening contract renewal.  

What has been a 3 day process to issue/fly ammo to the Warfighter is going to be extended to about 3 weeks b/c the contractor, not wanting to be written up for assisting Soldiers by configuring the unit's ammo in a way they are not required is saying they will stop b/c they don't want to be written up.  A work around has been suggested for the ASP contractor to still assist units by creating HAZDECs, helping prep the Unit's ammo (they've signed for the ammo) to the sling yards requirments, but the unit will have to cordinate movement to the sling yard.  However, most units do not have the necessary support at our location (LNOs) to prepare HAZDECs or move ammo from the ASP to the sling yard/flight line.  Still working out the details of this work around.  The contractor workers are not happy w/ this option of not being able to  openly help the Warfighter to the fullest extent b/c the QASAS is so focused upon drawings that don't apply in all situations.  

My concern is, the Warfighter probably does not have enough on hand stocks as the pipeline becomes 18 + or - days longer.  So if anyone has suggestions for load out drawings for the contractor for smaller quantities of various DODICs IOT prevent my QASAS from complaining it would be greatly appreciated.  The contract workers want to help the warfighter and by stepping back will cause the sling yard Soldiers to become overworked b/c they don't have the personel for the increase in workload.  And w/ the Boots On Ground numbers being examined.  I'm fearful the sling yard will lose more personnel while their workload is about to increase since the ASP workers aren't being allowed to assist.  Yet my QASAS writes up the contractor, who has been doing the work, wants to assist the warfighter, and who's numbers don't go against the BOG.  Help!  Seeking common sense solutions in a forward environment.

Picture Placeholder: TIM TRUMBLE
  • TIM TRUMBLE
/_layouts/15/images/person.gif" alt="Picture Placeholder: TIM TRUMBLE" />
TIM TRUMBLE

My QASAS has been telling me that there are drawings for Rotary Wing (sling) and Fixed Wing (463L pallet) movements.​  He quotes the 19-48 drawings which are for storage of single DODICs and outload  - like on a truck or in a MILVAN but the drawings don't account for mixed DODICs, nor various sized boxes w/in the same sling or on the same pallet, especially with limited rescources at an austere location (There are no Walmarts, Home Depots (limited lumber), etc. nearby).  In our situation, as the slings of mixed DODICs w/ different sizes and various weighted packages, which affects the center of gravity of the pallet gets lifted in the sling (also, how the corners of the pallet match up w/ the holes between the ropes of the sling can add to the twisting of the pallets of the ammo when the rotary wing asset lifts the sling) the pallets have twisted and the tensioned metal bands break.  The contractor has told me the broken banding can also cut/fray the sling making the sling not usable for future use and must then be replaced.  (By the way, what is the tension breaking strength of the various sizes of metal banding?)  The rotary wing contractor wants the pallets secured w/ ratched straps b/c the straps stretch w/o breaking while under stress.  That contractor says they have had metal banding break in flight for various reasons resulting in loose ammo in the sling and the contractor can't just set down IOT reconfigure the load adn doesn't want to drop ammo out of their sling which can become donor material to the bad guys.  When the rotary wing contractor comes in to set down the sling they are quite often under fire.  Inadvertantly they deliver the ammo w/ a thud (IOT leave the area quickly since they are not able to defend themselves.) 

The 19-48 drawings are for full pallets of the same DODIC, which works great for storage at Depots and loading onto trucks or into MILVANs  but not necessarily for Operational loads of smaller quantities of mixed DODICs.  A vast majority of units do not order Depot sized quantities or pallets of each DODIC.  Does anyone have a common sense answer to this delema?  The QASAS is writing up the contractor for packaging pallets of ammo as per sling yard guidance which is not abiding to the 1948 drawings.  The ASP contractor assists the units and gets them their ammo asap despite the contractor working outside their Statement of Work, by configured the ammo for sling loads and moving the ammo to the sling yard.  Most of the contract workers are former SM that worked ammo when they were serving, as such they understand as we do the need to provide the trigger puller ready, reliable, lethal ammunition quickly. 

The contract workers are packaging the unit's ammo as per the guidance from the sling yard personnel IOT quickly push the ammo to the Warfighter.  But the QASAS is writing the contractor up and pushing the write ups up their Chain of Command which is threatening contract renewal.  

What has been a 3 day process to issue/fly ammo to the Warfighter is going to be extended to about 3 weeks b/c the contractor, not wanting to be written up for assisting Soldiers by configuring the unit's ammo in a way they are not required is saying they will stop b/c they don't want to be written up.  A work around has been suggested for the ASP contractor to still assist units by creating HAZDECs, helping prep the Unit's ammo (they've signed for the ammo) to the sling yards requirments, but the unit will have to cordinate movement to the sling yard.  However, most units do not have the necessary support at our location (LNOs) to prepare HAZDECs or move ammo from the ASP to the sling yard/flight line.  Still working out the details of this work around.  The contractor workers are not happy w/ this option of not being able to  openly help the Warfighter to the fullest extent b/c the QASAS is so focused upon drawings that don't apply in all situations.  

My concern is, the Warfighter probably does not have enough on hand stocks as the pipeline becomes 18 + or - days longer.  So if anyone has suggestions for load out drawings for the contractor for smaller quantities of various DODICs IOT prevent my QASAS from complaining it would be greatly appreciated.  The contract workers want to help the warfighter and by stepping back will cause the sling yard Soldiers to become overworked b/c they don't have the personel for the increase in workload.  And w/ the Boots On Ground numbers being examined.  I'm fearful the sling yard will lose more personnel while their workload is about to increase since the ASP workers aren't being allowed to assist.  Yet my QASAS writes up the contractor, who has been doing the work, wants to assist the warfighter, and who's numbers don't go against the BOG.  Help!  Seeking common sense solutions in a forward environment.

111/7/2018 12:22 PM11/7/2018 12:22 PMNoAsk the Community
35.0800463932249
11/7/2018 10:25 AM
Edited: 11/13/2018 9:15 AM
Picture Placeholder: JACQUELINE GARCIA
JACQUELINE GARCIA

The U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety at DAC has been contacted with your question.  He has contacted people closer to you to look into the problem and get answers. DAC Engineering/Transportation Division has also been contacted.

 

Quick answer about Drawings on the Munitions and Exposive Safety CoP.

Drawings are located at: https://www.dau.mil/cop/ammo/Pages/Topics/Drawings.aspx

The General Conventional Ammunition drawings https://www.dau.mil/cop/ammo/Pages/Conventional-Ammunition-Items.aspx do not go by DODIC or type of Ammo.

Picture Placeholder: JACQUELINE GARCIA
  • JACQUELINE GARCIA
/_layouts/15/images/person.gif" alt="Picture Placeholder: JACQUELINE GARCIA" />
JACQUELINE GARCIA

The U.S. Army Technical Center for Explosives Safety at DAC has been contacted with your question.  He has contacted people closer to you to look into the problem and get answers. DAC Engineering/Transportation Division has also been contacted.

 

Quick answer about Drawings on the Munitions and Exposive Safety CoP.

Drawings are located at: https://www.dau.mil/cop/ammo/Pages/Topics/Drawings.aspx

The General Conventional Ammunition drawings https://www.dau.mil/cop/ammo/Pages/Conventional-Ammunition-Items.aspx do not go by DODIC or type of Ammo.

TIM TRUMBLE56011/13/2018 9:14 AM11/13/2018 9:15 AM
10/1/2008 7:03 PM

 

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